3D Vision Tweaks

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:39 am

The game is already stunning in 3D but their are a few issues. Thanks to the excellent customisation tools I have produced the following tweaks:

Contact icons are two close to screen, the brackets obscure the targets - simplified texture to remove brackets leaving the info table beneath.
Artificial Horizon too close - removed as there are other indicators availiable.
Weapon lock circles are too close obscuring targets - compensated by increasing diameter slightly.
Target shield status too close obscuring targets - removed as there are other indicators availaible.

There are two version:

BASIC: Vanilla - just fix the issues and leave the rest alone!
http://speedy.sh/tktUD/Evochron-Mercena ... on-Fix.rar

RECOMMENDED: As above, using MAXIMILLIAN's cockpit and lots of VIPERS's HUD elements - the cockpit is sleak, professional and has matt display consoles which make it easier to see the target ship details in 3D and the HUD looks stunning. I seriously recommend this one.
http://speedy.sh/cXJFs/Evochron-Mercena ... ockpit.rar

edited - slight change to cockpit. Spherical compass in plain bay.
edited #2 - slight change to BASIC (vanilla cockpit). Easier to read compasses.

[Edited on 4-7-2013 by andysonofbob]

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:19 pm

I like the rectangles around the targets specially the red for the enemies and the green indicators for shield and health. When you are in hostile territory fighting 30 or 50 enemies you do not have time to look at your other indicators and it is helpful to see the health indicators for many targets. I can give you a scenario where you can take out 7 enemies at the same time with one Excalibur folly of missiles but this would be a spoiler!......

:cool

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:49 pm

Hey brother, how do you get this game to launch with 3D vision? I've tried changing the executable file to Mass Effect, but the game just won't launch for me that way. I love Max's HUD and I really want to try this in 3D with your tweaks.

Also, hello Maars. Back from the dead, I am.

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:17 pm

Welcome back Twilly, You have to start in (FS) Locked Mode with 3D Vision enabled. But you have to have a 3D Vision Ready Graphics Card and the 3D Vision Drivers installed
and than run the 3D Setup wizard to choose what kind of 3D glasses you use!
Also check this thread:

http://www.starwraith.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10667

.....

[Edited on 4-6-2013 by Maarschalk]

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:02 am

Yep, that was it. I had to switch it to FS Locked mode. Don't know why, don't particularly care. Thanks Maars!

It looks pretty amazing in 3D. I turned out the lights and cranked up my floor speakers. Quite an experience.

I can see the changes in this mod, layering the hud to work in the foreground. It works quite well for the most part. I find that the depth of field has to be turned down quite a bit to avoid seeing double.

All in all pretty amazing, though flying through too much cloud cover in bad weather can make me a bit woozy in 3D.

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:48 pm

From post: 160689, Topic: tid=10743, author=Twilly Frost wrote:I find that the depth of field has to be turned down quite a bit to avoid seeing double.

Oh no! Are you using the red/blue anaglyph glasses? If so Maarschalk discovered doubling up on the glasses solves that problem.

Horses for courses and all that but you really want max depth. (Make those planets loom!), YOU WILL NEED to tweak (likely reduce) convergence so the spherical compass sits just in front of its console. Just in case you don't know how, go into nvidia's control panel and unlock the short cut keys for this.

@Maarschalk
I'm sure you know this anyway but if you want the squares back just delete or replace the relevant target textures from the HUD.

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:12 pm

From post: 160726, Topic: tid=10743, author=andysonofbob wrote:
From post: 160689, Topic: tid=10743, author=Twilly Frost wrote:I find that the depth of field has to be turned down quite a bit to avoid seeing double.
Oh no! Are you using the red/blue anaglyph glasses? If so Maarschalk discovered doubling up on the glasses solves that problem.

Horses for courses and all that but you really want max depth. (Make those planets loom!), YOU WILL NEED to tweak (likely reduce) convergence so the spherical compass sits just in front of its console. Just in case you don't know how, go into nvidia's control panel and unlock the short cut keys for this.

@Maarschalk
I'm sure you know this anyway but if you want the squares back just delete or replace the relevant target textures from the HUD.

No, I'm using Nvidia's active shutter glasses (3D vision 2)

I'n new to 3D so this is still a learning process for me. Trust me I would like to have the DOF as deep as I can.

I'll go to the Nvidia panel and see if I can't tweak the convergence. I may be back to ask for help

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:34 pm

Decreasing the convergence did the trick. I have the DOF at about 50%. Any more than that makes the cockpit seem too far away, IMO. Much better now, sharper.

One thing I'm not a big fan of is the depth of the target information. It seems too close and is very distracting in combat. Is editing the 3D parameters an easy thing to do, or should I leave that to the professionals? What do you think about it?

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:16 am

Have you tried one of the 3D vision mods? I keep tweaking them. The top one you can use with any HUD or cockpit choice. It removes the boxes, leaving just the target info beneath. Because the info is beneath it is less obscuring. I think so anyway.

I am sure you know this but obviously apply the 3D mod AFTER the cockpit/HUD of your choice.

How close to the screen are they? Does your compass look like it is just floating above the console? You could try reducing convergence a bit more but too much will lessen the 3D effect. This will cause the target ship info on the lower right (and maybe the compasses) to clip (sink into) its console further but I recently removed the clutter from their consoles so it should look less odd - hopefully.

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:55 pm

Yeah, I'm using the second of your links because I love Max's cockpit. I like what you've done, it looks great. I've set the convergence about as low as I think I should to still get a good 3D effect with a sharp picture and good DOF. It just seems to me that targeting information is too close in your view. The HUD is layered in the 3D field (looks great too, excellent job) and it seems to me that it would work best to have target information as the farthest level of you HUD display. As it is, when ships fly by in combat they are far away in your vision but the targeting information is pretty close in, and it's distracting to me.

I'm nitpicking here, mind you. Between the 3D and the new graphics EM is a whole new experience for me.

[Edited on 4-8-2013 by Twilly Frost]

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:08 pm

Also, there's no pitch ladder on the hud. It makes direct jumping difficult. Is there a way to add that back in?

Post by **Marvin** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:13 pm

From post: 160746, Topic: tid=10743, author=Twilly Frost wrote:One thing I'm not a big fan of is the depth of the target information. It seems too close and is very distracting in combat. Is editing the 3D parameters an easy thing to do, or should I leave that to the professionals? What do you think about it?

You need to read Vice's posts on this subject in one or two other threads to understand why certain icons cannot be adjusted.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:56 pm

With some external factors outside of my control causing some delays for the next update, I have some time to try and work on the indicators to see if I can change the rendering approach for them significantly in a way that may help with stereoscopic 3D. The pitch ladder may not have such an option, due to its dependence on intentional clipping. But many of the other indicators may be able to be adjusted in a way that could improve their appearance. At a minimum, it may be possible to provide a scaling mod option for the pitch ladder, so if the player is willing to tolerate no clipping for it, they could increase the scale of it to move its surface farther out.

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:06 pm

From post: 160767, Topic: tid=10743, author=Twilly Frost wrote:Also, there's no pitch ladder on the hud. It makes direct jumping difficult. Is there a way to add that back in?

Go into the HUD folder and remove the HUD tape and HUD tape shadow files. That will bring them back but they are a little close too.

Also

Mate, all I did was simply edit the textures slightly to simplify them to compensate for them being too close and edited cockpit textures to remove clutter, so if any element cuts into an object, it doesn't look too odd. I have made some bad choices and some not to peoples taste: artificial horizon and target brackets respectively. However thanks to the rigerous customisation features of this game anyone (if I can do it...) can simply remove the offending texture to revert back to vanilla or edit it themselves!

That cool layering is 100% down to VICE not taking shortcuts in his coding; making sure everything is in its right place.

If we are being honest the graphics aren't AAA quality are they? But because everything is 'real' the vistas you get are breathtaking. And the subtle physics details included give all your ships 'weight.' I used to play X3 alot and planets never had presence did they! EM's worlds genuinely loom in space, unlike X3 where they look drawn. Well that's my opinion anyway!

To reiterate
I am under the impression VICE had no idea (or cared) about S3D; it is only because of his excellent coding and provision of customisation tools EM looks as good as it does.

[Edited on 4-8-2013 by andysonofbob]

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:07 pm

From post: 160780, Topic: tid=10743, author=Vice wrote: With some external factors outside of my control causing some delays for the next update, I have some time to try and work on the indicators to see if I can change the rendering approach for them significantly in a way that may help with stereoscopic 3D. The pitch ladder may not have such an option, due to its dependence on intentional clipping. But many of the other indicators may be able to be adjusted in a way that could improve their appearance. At a minimum, it may be possible to provide a scaling mod option for the pitch ladder, so if the player is willing to tolerate no clipping for it, they could increase the scale of it to move its surface farther out.

That would be awesome!

Ooh!

Could you add a secondary option to adjust the amount of truncation of the pitch ladder? That might solve the clipping issue...

[Edited on 4-8-2013 by andysonofbob]

Twilly Frost · Post by **Twilly Frost** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:51 pm

I realize that 3D probably wasn't a priority when developing this expansion, it really is a niche market. I don't even use it that much myself, just for sim games mostly.

I have to say though, EM has been the best experience I've had with it so far. On a 24" monitor it's truly breathtaking. It helps that I have 4' floor speakers attached to a 1000 watt yamaha amp....it literally shakes the room when I'm descending towards a planet's surface.

At any rate, whatever enhancements can be made to accommodate 3D would just be gravy at this point. I appreciate your efforts on that front, Vice.

You too Andy, Son of Bob. I'll try adding the pitch ladder back in, but it sounds like it might be distracting.

Post by **Vice** » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:56 pm

Could you add a secondary option to adjust the amount of truncation of the pitch ladder? That might solve the clipping issue...

Not currently, that is handled by the Direct3D engine anyway (which in turn is directly linked to the scaling). But you may find the lack of clipping doesn't bother you as much in 3D anyway with the increased scaling.

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:37 am

It looks brilliant.

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/andysono ... c2e0000cd/

Here are some screenies of the next build, I hope Vice doesn't mind. (Please feel free to remove this post if you do and I will remove the album)
As you can see the target icons have been pushed back. A text file was supplied for the pitch ladder so you can push it back and scale it too your pleasure.

I have cheekily asked for the following to solve the only real issues remaining:

Easy fix (considering the last one anyway): the velocity direction indicator square(?) which is still too close.
Not so easy fix: the top and bottom compasses (they are too shallow) and the target ship hologram (too deep). Could a txt file be used for these elements like the pitch ladder?

Maarschalk · Post by **Maarschalk** » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:37 pm

Ever since I started messing around with the 3D settings weird things happened, one of the weird things was that suddenly the View Last I.M.G. Message came to life, one of See Jay's custom beta Quests in a profile that I have been using for a long time with the last quest #41 being displayed in the Pilots Profile, that had not been showing any Last message even when running the said See Jay's quest!....

:P

andysonofbob · Post by **andysonofbob** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:01 pm

No idea why 3D would have trigger that but all's well that ends well?

New screenies.

I would say completely perfect now and no need for my 3D Vision tweak once Vice releases the next build!

http://photos.3dvisionlive.com/andysono ... 258000108/

Here's the rating GameGrade3D gave Evochron Mercenary once I entered it into GG3D database:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/gg3d/index.php?sh ... 9&view=all